Tyr is a 7th generation male Midgard. He’s:
45% Great Dane
26% Neapolitan Mastiff
13% American Pitbull Terrier (multiple game lines)
10% Bullmastiff
6% Dogue De Bordeaux
These numbers are rounded to simplify.
Tyr is the second dog in this video,
Tyr is 30 inches at the shoulder and 145 pounds he’s very lean and muscular. He’s a blue brindle. He’s got great Prey and Defense drives, and he’s very confident. I’m very excited about his training and his future in my program. He is physically ideal, he’s build and proportions are exactly what I’ve been trying to produce. He has the perfect blend of speed, stamina, agility, and power. The only thing he needs is a little more size without altering his build, a couple of inches and a few pounds and he’d be the end result of my program. I’m confident some of his pups will be what my program has been seeking since the beginning. Tyr is a 7th generation Bandog.
His Sire Fenrir:
His Dam Kita:
Midgard Mastiffs 
wow he is impressive so the end result of your breeding program will make a dog 32-34 inches and between 150-160 pounds?
Yes my end result should be 32-34 and 150 – 170, in those proportions a large dog should have the greatest balance of size, speed, power, and endurance.
How about crossing Tyr to a black mid-content wolfdog? i’m not sure how the drives would turn out (probably would not be as good in therms of protection), but you would gain alot in morphology and maybe after selecting a couple generations later you could restore the proper drives for protection.
When I do the wolf outcross I need to cross it to a much more tightly bred dog than Tyr. I don’t normally produce tightly inbred dogs, but I think it’ll be needed to prepare for such a dramatic outcross as a wolf. Otherwise I think it’ll just produce wolfdog mutts, who can’t do anything. I also don’t want to use a mid-content wolfdog. Ideally I’d like to use a pure wolf that way I only have two elements to control in selection, the working mastiff and the wolf. Most mid-content wolfdogs today have a lot of huskey, malamute, GSD, etc in unknown amounts and generations of selection for the pet market. It’s very likely the genes I’d like to capture from the wolf are lost in most mid-content wolfdogs. Realistically I may have to use a wolfdog in place of a wolf but it will be the highest content I can get and the fewest generations of human selection possible. That way almost all of the dog blood will be my dogs and almost all the selection will be my selection. I expect 3 or 4 generations before I can get the working temperament back after the wolf outcross is used.
Yeah, that makes sense. Have you ever tried to get in contact with Serbian Defense Dog breeders to find out how the wolf outcross were managed by Nenad Gavrilovic?
Another breed that could provide some feedback on wolf outcross is the Lacy Dog.
Both have some interesting traits, the Lacy brothers made a nice versatile american cur type hunting dog, and the SDD is interesting because it’s the only other example of a working mastiff with wolf blood. I’ve never tried to contact anyone involved because of the language barrier. I also think they might not have managed to capture much of the potential the wolf offers, from what I can see. I don’t see much difference between the SDD and the average mastiff focused bandog program. I suspect they used the wolf outcross too early in their program, and lost most of it through successive outcrosses to working mastiff type dogs. That’s why I’m planning to use the wolf as the final outcross in an established line.
I really hope you get a Alpha wolf full blooded over the phone it sounded like if you start with a smaller wild animal you return to a smaller wild animal while all wolves will hold the traits you desire starting with a larger wolf may ensure less reverting back to a smaller breed animal. Also how will you be breeding the neg traits out of the wolf while maintaining the positive within your line? And besides longevity what other traits are you looking to get out of the wolf?
Thanks David. The plan is to use either a Mackenzie Valley wolf or a Siberian grey wolf. Those are the largest subspecies of gray wolves, I’d prefer the Mackenzie Valley wolf. I’m hoping to get longevity, intelligence, pack hunting and fighting skills, health, genetic diversity, increased tooth size, and several small but important joint and supportive tissue adaptations that large northern wolves have that dogs and southern wolves lack.
There is nothing special about the method I plan to use to get the best traits of the working mastiff and the wolf into into one animal and eliminate the problems with both. Selection and testing are the basis for any working breeding program, it’ll take generations of breeding, testing and culling to isolate and maintain the traits I want and remove the ones I don’t.
Also the term Alpha wolf is commonly misused. A lot of people see alpha wolves as being different from regular wolves, usually bigger and more powerful. Alpha wolves are usually just the oldest wolves and since wolf packs are really family units the alphas are typically the parents of the rest of the pack. Since the alphas are the only breeding pair in the pack this limits inbreeding and is why all wolves are sired by alpha wolves. So alpha wolves aren’t especially genetically distinct from the other wolves in the pack. The biggest genetic distinctions in wolves are the differences in geographically isolated populations.
If you’re going for size and fighting ability I say go for the McKenzie. It’s got the largest teeth too. You can also go the easy way and buy a high content wolf hybrid. If so then I know a few good breeders. This is a good list of them. http://realwolfdogs.tumblr.com/wolfdogbreeders
P.s. May I advertise you on my blog? I’m making a best breeders list.
Another suggestion if you want a pure blood is trying to talk to these guys:
http://www.actionanimals.com/animals_wolves.html
I’ve seen a video of their wolves on youtube and they seem to have decent nerves for wolves… they’re actualy after food but from what i’ve read about wolfdogs (probably a lot of exaggeration) most wouldn’t be confident enough to do that even with lots of pieces of meat hanging on the stuntman.
Of course this could be achieved through a gradual training but i guess since these guys work with their wolves there must be some kind of selection for confident and not so shy animals.
Here’s the video:
Just wanted to say that I’m really intrigued with your whole program.
Just wondering if you have ever considered out crossing to the Kangal? I have visited a breeder in Washington State that crosses his Sivas Kangal (not an Anatolian) to his mastiff crosses and/or pure boerboels. You likely have seen his website but if not, check it out. olympicdogs.com. The kangal brings height, health, intelligence, larger teeth, and pretty intense personality to his mastiff crosses.
I’ve though about it, and I like the build on a lot of Kangal, but I don’t think a livestock guardian dog is a good complement to a Mastiff bred to be a family guardian and big game catch dog. I’ve spoken to Andrew and it makes sense for his program since he’s trying to make a livestock guardian dog with the improved gladitatorial abilitys of the mastiff to be better able to handle North American big predators like Northern Gray wolves and Mountain Lions. I think anything I could get from a Kangal I can get better from my planned wolf outcross for my needs.
Can you give me a link to this breeder. Also if you want a robust thick set wolf for your breeding I suggest an arctic or tundra. McKenzie crosses are rather rare, but are indeed the largest at 115-120 pounds on average. Also if you haven’t already I suggest using tosa inu or akita. Both make for amazing workers and hunters. Frankly a good working Boerbel mixed in would do the trick too.
First of all, great dogs, specialy Tyr, for me.
I would like to know that if, in your opinion, neutering dogs will undemise their hability to PP and if so, how difficult is it to find bitches to “handle” the problem.
Thanks.
Fixing an adult male should mostly impact his sex drive, but shouldn’t change his Prey or Defense drive, though he will lose some of his athleticism. Be sure to wait until the dog is fully developed and at least 2.5 years old to get it done. As far as finding a female who can work as a man stopper, that’s no problem. Some of my best dogs have been female, sex doesn’t really impact working ability except that females are smaller.
When do you expect the end of your program to come about?
I expect to produce some of the end result dog in a generation or two, but creating a consistent line of them will take very long time.
Well I wish you well as you continue on with your program. You have wonderful looking dogs (of whom I’m sure are quite wonderful).
David, I’ve been posting to your Facebook page so this isn’t new to you. I’m posting for prospective buyers.
I have a pup bred by David out of Tyr and bitch named Psyche, not listed on the page. So far he has good drives, is obedient, and pretty courageous. He’s not stupid, though. He shows good curiosity and a willingness to try new things. He does want to check it out a little at first and then dives right in. He’s a normal drivey puppy, always chewing on things and getting into things, but you shouldn’t get a dog like this if you can’t deal with basic things like this. You should expect it and worry if it’s not there. As he’s still a puppy, I can’t tell anyone about his defense yet, but I can say that he’s definitely not lazy, wants to play hard, has good prey and retrieve drive, good desire to please a handler, and keeps on coming even during pretty rough roughhousing. That’s what one should be seeing out of working prospect puppy. There’s not a lot of hunt drives, which means he won’t roam much later on. There’s not much of a rank drive, though it is there a little bit. Not concerning at all.
I am a former law enforcement canine handler with experience working high drive dogs. I can say those types of dogs are good for patrol work and dog sports, but not as a dog that can readily be trained to live easily within a home, with a family, and in normal society yet still be trained to protect the handler and the family. This dog, after working with him for 2 months, shows great potential for doing what people want out of the European dogs but without a lot of the headaches associated with them. If you know anything about dog drives and working dogs, you already know what I’m talking about. Don’t expect a dog to be a superdog without putting time and energy into training it. David has laid a good foundation if you want a family dog that can be trained to properly protect you and yours in a bad situation. If you’re unwilling or unable to do any training with the dog, then you’ll get a dog that will rely only on its base drives and instincts, which may be right or wrong depending on the circumstances. All you can ask for from a breeder is that they give you a dog with drives and instincts that can be sharpened and honed into what you want. David has done that.
Think of yourself as a knife maker who wants a knife that can perform well in a specific situation. A breeder is the person who gives you the raw steel made to certain specs. It’s up to you to take that steel and mold it into what you want, but first you have to find the right metal to work with. You can club someone with a bar of the finest steel available, but to have a great knife it’s up to you to find the right steel for the job you want performed and then to shape it into a functional tool. The bar of steel from a random producer may or may not work for you and you may not be able to take the other steel and make it into the knife you want. There are other types of steel on the market, and they’re good for their purposes, but for what David is attempting, I don’t think there’s much of a better steel than what he’s producing. I hope that was a good analogy.
David, if you find this post would be better in another location, feel free to move it. Good luck to you, keep up the good work.
Google about Вольфхунд, or Русский вольфхунд (Russian Volfhund). Apparently it is a new breed being developed in Russia crossing Alaskan Malamute and Canadian black wolfs… i don’t know russian and couldn’t find info about it in other language but i thought you should have a look…
How would I go about importing male and a female into the USA
I would love to have me a peace of my past with me and I just love
Dogs
Thank u
I’m in the US so no need to import. If you meant how much to export from the US it depends on where you are get in tough with me and I can get more specific info once you let me know where you are.
what about the blue bay shepherd?yhey 90 % german shepherd 10% wolf and breeder was former wolf breeder. might want to call her.
are you fulling mixing in your bandogge with the wolves? or just a subset trail. I love your dogs and will buy one soon!! would hate to see your current work fade
Hey David. I’m curious do you still have Tyr or any of his descendants? I always love the look of him.
I have a really great daughter of his out of Isis named Frigga. I just bred her to Osiris and if she’s pregnant I’ll have pups soon.
Oh wow, I’ll have to wait for the next repeat breeding then! I’m sure they will all be phenomenal!