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  1. How much is Kronos stud fee ? and is there any chances of you producing offspring similar .. personally i like the combination of Great dane for Hight , mastino mass ans weight and pitbull large head and muscular body type

    1. So far the pups he’s produced have been very similar in type and attitude, though most have come out more heavily built. His first litter was with Nyx, currently the pups are 5 months old and over 70 pounds. The two males out of that breeding are very large and are showing great signs of becoming great protection dogs. I’m also very impressed with his litter with Echidna though the pups are much younger.

      As for the stud fee for Kronos it’s $1000.

      I like the combination as well. The Dane brings height, speed, prey drive, sight orentedness, a descent nose, the body length needed for maneuverability, and naturally low body fat. The Neo brings suspicion, strong defense drive, power, strong thick bones, intelligence, a very high pain tolerance, calmness, tolerance of children, the desire to stay close to home, and a large powerful skull. The pitbull in my dogs is game bred from jeep, redboy, rascal, and chinaman lines, they don’t tend to have the large heads of the show pits. What the game bred pits do bring is prey drive, fight drive, stamina, general health and soundness, a high stimulus threshold (gameness), bite and hold mentality, a naturally muscular and fit body type, a high strength to weight ratio for agility, and endless determination. Each dog bred from these three breeds isn’t necessarily going to get all these traites, that’s why good selective breeding is needed to be sure the best dogs with the best traits of their forefathers are the core of the next generation.

      1. How’s it going brotha was curious if you ever thought about using a central Asian shepherd as part a bandog prodject? I’m going to start my own personal project soon With my apbt catahoula mix was thinking of mating to maybe a tosa then mating one of those to cao or an aboriginal like taibadi would love to get wolf hound in there to for some extra speed but don’t know how easy tht will be but anyway would love to know if cao ever crossed your mind

  2. I am interested in purchasing pups from you this summer. They will be estate guards in the Philippines. Please contact me so that we can discuss my needs. i like what you are doing.

  3. im very interested in a male preferably blue and will be looking to purchase late december, early january. the dog will be used for protecion of my family and property as i work away from home a lot. i am looking for a very muscular, heavy boned dog with agility so he can jump in my ute,go to the park/creek and fetch etc. Kronos to me looks exceptional and if i could get similar in blue/black or a mearle mix that would be amazing.
    i live in australia so could you price me for pup and then for the pup and transport.
    thankyou in advance, i look forward to doing business with you.

    kind regards
    Chris Ellis

  4. What are you seeing in Black female #3 and the merle female. I have a interest in them… Please advise me. Jamal

  5. From wich kennel did you got your Neo from? Also, could you tell more details about your dogs like wich breeds are in each one of them, temperament, weight, etc.?

    1. I got Achilles from a man who couldn’t keep him, I’d known about Achilles for about a year and had planned a breeding. During that time I was able to get close to him and put my hands on him. Apparently I was the only man he’d ever let touch him other than his owner, and that took three hours. After that I got him from the man who’d originally gotten him from a breeder near Seattle WA. He lost his papers between the first time I met him and when I came to do the breeding. So we are working through all the AKC red tape to get them replaced. Because of the location I’m guessing he’s from Hawk lines.

      As for the sizes and temperaments I’m working on individual pages for each dog now, that will have that info.


  6. David,

    I’m really impressed by how much thought you put into your breeding program and the amount of information you provide to people visiting your website. I also support the theory of hybrid dogs having more vigor. That being said since larger dogs are prone to such concerns as hip displaysia do you feel it’s a benefit to breed in a smaller dog such as the APBT and also do you Pennhip test your dogs? I am looking to purchase a dog in the spring of 2012 and will be monitoring your website along with your face book for updates on breedings.

    Kindest Regards,


  7. Thanks, Drew.

    While several large breeds have very high instances of HD, it’s not the size that make the dog dysplastic. According to the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals, the most dysplastic breed is the English Bulldog with 72 percent of the breed affected. The second most is the Pug with 64 percent of the population dysplastic. Bulldogs max out at about 60 lbs and Pugs around 20. While only 12 percent of Great Danes are Dysplastic. Game bred APBTs tend to be very healthy dogs in general because of the extreme performance based type of selection used to found the breed. Recently the breed has suffered because of the “bully pit” trend due to the introduction of modern english bulldog blood.

    I’ve never had a pennhip evaluation on any of my dogs. The method I prefer is to push the dogs. I don’t coddle my dogs as pups, I let them run, jump, work and play as hard as they want at all stages of life. I look strongly at each dogs structure, and angulation. I do physical exams and if anything is suspected I do X-ray the dogs hips. This method has worked really well for me so far. I have dogs who can sprint at 40 mph and dogs who can jump out of a 6ft pen in one leap, and noone has ever called me to complain about one of my dogs having joint problems. I’ve considered doing Pennhip tests just for easy comparison of my dogs to other, but I haven’t done it.

  8. Hello from Finland!

    I am a proud owner of a game-bred Pitbull. He is at the moment already 12,5-years old. He has been a perfect dog as well as a real friend for me during these years. Besides of APBT´s I have always been intrested in bandogs. Little bit bigger size is good thing in protection work. Your dogs look like very agile. And that is what I appreciate because I used to train different kind of out door activities(runnind, skiing, walking, etc.).
    Have you ever sold any of your dogs to Skandinavian countries? It would be nice to see this kind of dogs in practise.

  9. I see you must to busy to chat. I have some notes from a Boar Dog breeder you might find interesting:

    1. English bull terrier
    Pros- Courage, Grip, strength, durability, prey drive, pain tolerance, determination, combative composure
    cons- short legs/poor ground coverage, hard-headed, soft feet, dog aggression

    2. Greyhound
    Pros- speed/acceleration, vision, height, good ground coverage, prey drive, often hard and brave for a sighthound, docility
    cons- gracility/lack of durability, poor grip, soft feet, thin skin, lack of bush intelligence, can sometimes be timid, doesn’t use nose well, burns out quickly/won’t work long

    3. Wolfhound
    Pros- Size (height and strength), tough skin, hard feet, prey drive and bush smarts, nose, speed, ground coverage, very hard for a sighthound, killing bite and best grip of a sighthound, docility, good stamina for big dog
    cons- Poor health/short lifespan, slow to mature

    4. Bullmastiff
    Pros- Grip, power, courage, durability, combative composure
    Cons- poor heat tolerance, slow, poor stamina

    5. Great dane
    Pros- Size, nose, speed, prey drive, ground coverage
    cons- Poor health/short lifespan, slow to mature, average agility

    6. Apbt
    Pros- Courage, Grip, strength, durability, prey drive, pain tolerance, determination, health, agility, stamina, combative composure
    Cons- soft feet, dog aggression, average ground coverage, illegal

    7. Deerhound
    Pros- Speed, ground coverage, prey drive and bush smarts, tough skin, hard feet, vision, docility, stamina, one of the harder sighthounds, strong bite for a sighthound
    Cons- Slow to mature, somewhat gracile, still not the firmest grip

    8. Boxer
    Pros- speed, energy, agility, courage, friendliness
    cons- Health, poor bite, hyperactive/goofiness

    9. English mastiff
    Pros- size, power, grip, durability
    Cons- Health, slow/sluggish, poor stamina, slow to mature

    10. American bulldog
    Pros- grip, courage, strength, determination, pain tolerance, composure
    Cons- Heat tolerance, nose, average speed

    11. German shorthaired pointer
    Pros- Nose, energy, enthusiasm, stamina, speed, agility, bush smarts, good feet, good in water/swamps
    Cons- reluctance to lug, prone to aggression, ordinary pain tolerance

    12. Rhodesian ridgeback
    Pros- Heat tolerance, stamina, speed, nose, agility
    Cons- unreliable lugger

    13. Australian cattle dog
    Pros- Energy, stamina, enthusiasm, heat tolerance, intelligence and bush smarts, good feet, durability, agility, good bailer
    Cons- Reluctance to lug, cagey/sneaky, prone to aggression

    14. Catahoula
    Pros- Nose, stamina, speed, good feet, bush smarts, good voice/bailer
    Cons- Reluctance to lug

    15. Kelpie
    Pros- Energy, stamina, enthusiasm, heat tolerance, intelligence and bush smarts, good feet, agility, good bailer
    Cons- Reluctance to lug

    16. Neapolitan mastiff
    Pros- Durability, power, pain tolerance, courage, grip, good in water/swamps, combative composure
    Cons- poor health, slow, heat tolerance, stamina, soft feet

    17. Airedale terrier
    Pros- Nose, bush smarts and intelligence, stamina, agility, good feet, prey drive
    Cons- Somewhat lacking in durability, strength and speed

    18. American staffordshire terrier
    Pros- Grip, strength, courage, durability, prey drive, pain tolerance, determination, composure
    cons- poor ground coverage, soft feet, dog aggression

    19. Border Collie
    Pros- Intelligence, energy, stamina, enthusiasm, quickness, good bailer
    Cons- reluctance to lug, lack of durability and strength

    20. Bloodhound
    Pros- Nose, determination on a trail, good voice/bailer, good feet
    Cons- Reluctance to lug, stubbornness on a trail, not very fast, noisy

    21. Staffordshire bull terrier
    Pros- Grip, courage, agility, durability, compactness for getting about in thick scrub
    Cons- Very poor ground coverage/short legs, uses a lot of energy, average feet, heat tolerance and stamina can suffer from excessive muscle and short face

    22. Coonhound
    Pros- Nose, determination on a trail, bush smarts, stamina, good feet, good voice/bailer, fast and agile, wary/cautious and safe
    Cons- Reluctance to lug, stubbornness on a trail, annoyingly noisy

    23. Foxhound
    Pros- Nose, bush smarts, good feet, stamina, good voice/bailer
    Cons- Reluctance to lug, annoyingly noisy

    24. Shar pei
    Pros- Grip, agility, composure
    cons- Health, cagey/sneaky, prone to aggression

    25. Huntaway
    Pros- Energy, stamina, enthusiasm, heat tolerance, intelligence and bush smarts, good feet, agility
    Cons- Reluctance to lug, small

    26. English pointer
    Pros- Nose, stamina, enthusiasm, good feet
    Cons- Not as smart as german pointers, reluctance to lug

    27. German Wirehaired pointer
    Pros- Nose, stamina, enthusiasm, feet, tough coat
    Cons- Prone to aggression/cagey, reluctance to lug

    28. Fila Brasileiro
    Pros- Grip, strength, courage, nose, durability
    Cons- fairly slow, prone to aggression, average stamina, illegal

    29. Dogue de bordeaux
    Pros- Grip, strength, courage, durability
    Cons- inconsistency, poor heat tolerance and stamina

    30. Cane corso
    Pros- Grip, strength, durability, athletic for a mastiff
    Cons- inconsistency, prone to lacking nerve

    The top mix being the Bully Arab. Created by – Mike Hodgens
    Breed origins- Ebt x greyhound/german shorthaired pointer (bloodhound, great dane and cattle dog feature in small doses in different lines)
    Height- 25-29 inches
    Weight- 30-55 kgs (Have been known to reach 60 kgs)66-132 lbs.
    Known quarry- Boars, scrub cattle, wild horses

  10. hi
    i am interested in getting a male dog from you, i hunt hogs in south carolina and i am realy impressed in your program. i like the look of Tyr and Psyche ALOT. and i would like to get a dog similar in build as Tyr and Psyche. please get back to me.

  11. OMG i cannot believe what we’ve done to these breeds what a diff there is in the ancient french mastiff and today’s french mastiff

  12. Hi, really appreciate your good work. Am a Nigerian & a dog lover. Pls Would love you create more awareness, to youths particularly, about how most of the mastiff breeds(esp neapo & danes) have been mutilated by show breeders! Was alarmed to see the difference btw dogs of today & those of the past. I love functional dogs! What does it cost to buy a pup from you? Thanks & keep up the good work.

  13. Hi I’m am.very interested in purchasing a pup from you , I love what I see . I’m looking for a pup here in a around 3-4 months preferabley male , I would personally like a good protection dog and very athletic . If you could email me is appreciate it I have a few questions . Thank you

  14. Who are Lynn and Kita? Also, could add pictures of the parents in each dog profile? Keep up the great work!

    1. Kita is a great female owned by Chris Newman, he contacted me about studded one of my males. After I met Kita I knew she was the female I’d been looking for to breed Fenrir to. Kita’s mother was like Kronos half Neo and a quarter Dane and Pitbull. Her sire was a Great Dane. They didn’t disappoint me with their litter Tyr was the price of that breeding and I’m extremely pleased with him. One of his littermates also has a live bite protecting their property.

      Lynn is Chimera’s Lynn produced my Lee Robinson. She has always been my favorite female in Lee’s program. She’s a great working dog and very stable minded. She’s half Pitbull and a quarter Neo and Tosa. She was bred to Achilles to produce Isis, she’s still young but so far I’m very happy with her as well. You can see Lee’s page about Lynn here:


      That’s a good suggestion about the parents pictures, I’ll do that where I can.

    1. I’ve always had an easy time training them and they tend to be very eager to please and very biddable. They tend to be more submissive to family and more sensitive to the handler so they need to be trained in OB using motivational methods. So they may never be as crisp in competitive OB as a Herder type, maybe a better trainer than me could do it. But they usually listen well and are easy to live with they tend to be very mental thinking dogs.

  15. Hi I 1st like to say I love the fact you are breeding not for looks but what the dogs were meant for and that’s to protect.I would like to get a Neo from you for just that family protection,how often do you have Neo litters and what is your price?

    1. Thank you, but I don’t breed Neo. I breed Bandogs I’ll have some litters with high Neo content, especially when they are sired by my Neo stud Achilles. I won’t be having any Neo to Neo breedings because my program goal is to significantly improve the working mastiff, and the pure form of the Neapolitan mastiff has too many performance reducing features.

  16. That’s still years away, I’ll be bringing the wolf in after my line is more established and more consistent. Otherwise the wolf would just throw them completely off course. If I don’t have a good core group of consistent dogs who all meet my whole standard and produce it consistently, I may also lose the wolf traits I’m looking for in the process of getting the line where I want it.

  17. i amazed to read on this site the words bull arab… you just cant compare bull arabs to the neo or the bandog. neo mastiff that are bred well will break moulds and fit in where you need them. they fear nothing when brought up well and are easily kept around the house, with livestock and as family companions there a dog that will locate and catch big boars one out while maintaing and calm nature with a great gaurd skill set . bull arabs are not as far as i know used as pp dogs at all, and rarly would make gaurd dogs, mabey in a 100 years of carfull breeding they could match some traits but i belive at the moment its a huge call to make the bull arab as the top breed of boar hunting / lugging dogs that is just my opion from bull arabs ive worked with and i will say they do have potential. great site love. the work…… do you send staws

    1. It’s nice to hear another opinion on the Bull Arab, I’ve never had the opertunity to see one. The list that was posted in the comments here has been floating around the Internet for a while, I’m not sure where it started or who made it, but it’s nice to get some feedback from an Aussie with experience with them. I don’t think that list is talking about protection dogs though, just hog dogs.

      I definitely agree with you about the temperament of a good Neo, it’s such a shame to so many great minded animals are in such terrible useless bodies. I’m glad there are people like us working to correct that. As for shipping straws for AI I can do that, but I don’t do regular collections so it would be collected on request.

  18. Couple more questions…

    Who are your biggest (and tallest) dogs? Do you think that since you started your program, your dogs are getting smaller and bulkier or they are keeping the size and getting bulky? And how would you fix that, just adding height with lean tall dogs?

    1. Raheem is probably my heaviest dog and one of the tallest, but that’s not surprising considering he’s Great Dane x Bordeaux Mastiff. The tallest is probably Orisis but several of Achilles sons that I sold are a bit taller. I think in this generation the tallest dogs will be Atlas and Triton, they may be some of the largest and tallest dogs I’ve ever produced.

      Over the generations my dogs have gotten bigger and taller, I wouldn’t say they have become bulky. The amount of very muscular dogs has gone up but I’m always looking for a tall lean frame, but with strong bones and powerful muscles. I do have some dogs that are a bit bulky, but they are used to balance my dogs that are too lean, I’m always seeking a practical balance. I really like the shape and extraordinary mobility of Tyr and am aiming for his build on a 160 lb 33 inch frame. It’s very important for a dog to have a balanced frame, too bulky and you lose athleticism and mobility, too lean and you lose strength and toughness.

      As far as how to fix it or achieve my goals, Achilles influence has added a lot of mass to this generation, but he was bred to balanced females and balance was selected for. Wally (When the stars go blue) is also an important outcross being a mostly balanced Dane bred to Psyche a phenomenally well built lean athletic girl. They produced Atlas who is an awesome young male who’s very well balanced and will complement females like Isis who are heavy on the Neo blood. The goal is to cross dogs who can bring each side and select those specimens who have the best of both to contribute to the next generation.

  19. Also, it would be nice if you could make a page with some kind of timeline showing the evolution of your dogs

  20. I really like your site. I have my first Neo and she is not yet a year old. She doesn’t have the extreme wrinkles i see with so many of the neo’s. I thought maybe that was a bad thing until i started reading here. I never liked the look of that extreme wrinkling, seems it would be debilitating. I also like the fact that you let your dogs play rough as they like. From all i have read i was worried that may be bad for my girl. The article about raising a working mastiff was very interesting. I have a question about prey drive. My girl has no interest in cats or small animals but she will lie in wait for her packmates. One is a female apbt and the other a male staffy. If she is the first out the door to the yard she will wait till they get outside and attack whichever one is closest by biting a leg or wherever she can. If she is the last out the door she runs as fast as she can and zero’s in on the the neck area just above the shoulder blades. She means business when she is after them. Her whole face and the look in her eyes is intense as if she is hunting.Is that prey drive or some sort of dominance thing? She is the youngest of the pack. She acts like this is a very fun game for her. It has gotten to the point that the other dogs wait for me to stand in between her and them making her get back before they will enter or exit with her. Any aggression they may show her in return is completely ignored.Not sure what is going on with my girl. If you can shed any light on this it would be appreciated. Thanks, Christy Sharp

    1. That’s play drive, there are more drives than just the ones I mentioned, and play drive is what you’re describing. Play drive is what drives the hunting games with a lot of tackling chasing and wrestling in young pups, it looks like prey but it’s a social drive so it targets pack-mates. Prey drive usually only targets non pack members like small animals, toys, even other non pack dogs. Some dogs with really high prey drive will target pack members in prey when they get excited, you can see the change in behavior because they will start getting carried away and start hurting the other dog. Play rarely leads to intentional injury, though a big dog can hurt a smaller dog by not understanding how much more fragile they can be.

      Keep in mind the reason I let my dogs run, jump, tackle and play rough is because I want to know if they have issues. It increases the chance of a dog with joint issues having a disabling injury, that is something I need to know as a breeder. If your not looking to breed her I would be careful with her, the best chance for her as an individual to avoid issues is to follow your breeders advice. If they recommend limiting the dogs activity they may be saying that because they know they produce problems sometimes and are looking to minimize issues. For my breeding program though, I want any issues to be known so they can be selected against, and not reproduced. Rough is good for the breed by being hard on the individual, and gentle is good for the individual but hard on the breed.

  21. What happened to the breeding between Echidna and Raheem? I saw one pic on facebook, but nothing else was mentioned of the litter.

  22. David, I’m very interested in what you’re doing and I enjoy following the website. Do you have anymore litters planned?

    1. Nothing too soon, I need to spend the better part of next year raising, evaluating and training my newest generation before I know how to move forward, but tentatively I plan to breed Kronos to Pele depending on how she works.

      1. I hope Pele works out for you. I’d like to see how Achilles’ pups influence your program. Since they’re half neo, she and Triton are surprisingly tight skinned. It looks like they are about a year old now. They’ll probably fill out a bit more, but do you have approximate height and weight for them?

  23. We absolutely love your blog and find nearly all of your
    post’s to be precisely what I’m looking for. Do you offer guest writers to write
    content for you personally? I wouldn’t mind writing a
    post or elaborating on some of the subjects you write in relation to here.
    Again, awesome web log!

    1. Thanks, I’ve never had anyone else contribute content to my site but I’m interested to see what you have to say. Please get in touch with me through email and I’ll we can figure it out.

  24. hi i like your site alot. but i have 2 questions. 1, how would you rate a rottweiler with pros and cons? 2,are these judgments based on research of your own?

    1. I don’t export overseas anymore, the customs costs and requirements make it undoable. If you handle the shipping details costs and arraignments I’m willing but otherwise I just don’t have time to deal with the customs bureaucracy.

  25. Hello.
    I received a dog from someone who no longer felt capable of taking care of him in August 2018, as I have and am familiar with giant breed dogs.
    I was told he came from Midgard Mastiffs and was wondering if you had more information on him, I’m very interested in his makeup and background.
    His name is Joker, I believe he said that was the name he had when he got him.
    Thank you

  26. Hi my name is Malaysia Bowman and I am interested in buying a puppy from you guys in the future as an emotional support animal and future best friend. I was wondering if you guys were planning any breedings in late 2020 to early 2021. I’m also curious about the prices you usually sell them for as well if you provide transportation since I live all the way in Boston Massachusetts. Would love to get in touch with you guys!

    1. Hello,

      Sorry I didn’t see this comment until now. I have a litter currently and might have one more towards the end of the year. My price 1500, there are shipping options but they aren’t included in the price so that’s extra.

  27. Hello there, I do think your website may be having internet browser compatibility issues. When I take a look at your website in Safari, it looks fine but when opening in Internet Explorer, it’s got some overlapping issues. I simply wanted to give you a quick heads up! Besides that, wonderful website!

  28. Just wanted to shout out to you. I have a littermate of Frigga, his name is Gromm. Absolutely best dog I’ve ever had. Was a freak out of the Tyr and Isis breeding you did a while back. He’s 32 inches and about 170 pounds. Keep it up man. Litter looks great.

  29. I have a question that pertains to exercising your dogs. How long would you exercise your dog for? What are the best ways to tire out your dogs?

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